Hi Greg, how are we doing? And we've got our ninja with us, we, Leanne, she's going to keep  us honest today So we're going to be in a good books And I've got my fellow presenter. with me, Simon, Simon is an contributor and he is a, I'm going to take, take some words.  from Greg He actually is a badass acting badass coach for us He's going to be talking.  with us about different coaching stances And I can see all of us joining from various.  places So I'm really thankful for every one of you, especially people who are coming from.  really interesting time zones Today we're joining you, some of us from Australia, New.  Zealand, 6am on Saturday morning So really interest Thank you everyone for coming along.  at this time And I'm sure we would love to know where all of you are coming from So.  if you can use the chat, go in, share where you're coming from, what time of the day it  is, and how you've dedicated to come to us Really thankful about that And a little bit.  about myself I am Manthan Goghari, an ambassador and a pragmatic agile coach So when Simon.  spoke to me about this coaching stance, I'm like, okay, that's interesting Let's talk.  about it I'm not going to commit to what you're trying to sell me So let's have a chat.  and let's bring the community along And most importantly, we are here for you So thank.  you for coming along and really want to give a shout out to each and every one of you to  making time today And please lean in, ask questions, use the chat, use the emojis Let's.  make this our event Let's make this happen And with that, I call this event to start.  So let's rock and roll So Simon and all this, as we said, would not have been possible.  if Eric didn't have that interesting vision to bring us together So Eric started this.  movement and we just picking on and just putting more energy into the fire So thank you, everyone.  And we've got few more people that have in the community that are going to join us as  well Simon, if you can go to the next one So today, what we are going to be doing, we.  are going to talk talking to you about coaching and it is not just agile coaching It could.  be any coach one on one coach, a team coaching, an organization coaching and a leadership  coaching We are going to be talking about two different distinct styles of coaching,.  the person centric style and the and another which is a not which is a directive style.  Maybe we're going to be after we learn about that, we're going to spend some time in triads  and practice that in our breakout rooms And finally, we're going to come back and reflect.  in terms of what we learned, how we learned and what our experiences was So if you go.  to the next one, Simon So as I was getting into my journey of as an agile coach, I started.  talking thinking about when I was experiencing and I started as a as a software developer  and looked at it and saying, this sounds interesting How should I go about? I spoke.  with a lot of coaches said some coaches really only ask questions, they would never tell.  me anything They would ask me, Oh, what do you think about this? And all the answers.  would be it depends And I was like, Okay, that that sounds interesting Everything is.  it is depends I said, Okay, I can I can understand a little bit about that The next one was.  some coaches gave me real great answers They really told me go do do this And I was like,.  Okay, that's an interesting mindset And some were using the philosophy, they would teach.  me something, then they would ask me, and they would mentor me, and they would then  teach me, then ask me, then mentor me And I was like, Okay, I sometimes asked those individuals.  saying, which personality am I with today? Am I with the teacher coach today? Am I with  the mentor coach today? Or am I with the coach coach today? And that really resonated with  me to understand different ways and different perspectives of how to coach about it So.  we're going to unpack that a little bit today So if we go to the next slide is this is where.  maybe I want all of us to come together Think about your experience as a coach It could.  be a personal coach could be a team coach could be a leadership coach could be an organization  coach And what resonates to you so what kind of styles do you use or have you used And. I am going to take you to Miro board for this interactive activity So for those of. us have any one of you not use Miro Board as a interactive or collaborative tool, we'd love  to see what sort of audience do we have That's really nice That's really depends. We love that So I'm going to share my screen So I put the link of the  Miro Board  in the. chat Let's come in the  Miro Board  Let's spend another five minutes And in the first.  frame over here, how would you rate your style? So pick up a post it note customize it however.  you want If you think it's directive, put it in the directive and share why what what.  resonates that to you And try not to fence it But yeah, if you feel you're not decided.  like some of us are put your name there, see where what what comes to you And I will give.  ourselves some say three minutes for this activity And let's see how we go And feel.  free to please share your thoughts as they're coming I see back is on a really directive.  style Thanks back for putting in there Once gone on the non directive style today for.  us.  To zoom in a little bit Someone needs direction They're new to a role or task Nice See if.  I can give you some music for this I don't know if the music works It should If you.  share the sound There you go I forgot to share the sound So let's let's see Tell.  me a little bit more one about the non directive What resonates for you in non directive style.  of coaching?  Like multimodal Could you elaborate on that? What what that means for you? If you are pleased.  to come off mute Let's talk about this for a minute or so.  And multiple just means that depending on the contract, you pass on with your client  be team or individual organization Contract or manager coaching contract that you do at.  the beginning You will choose the preferred mode of coaching can be a professional coaching.  stand type can be a mentoring or guiding coaching type And then of course you have different.  stances in the coaching depending on the setup It's not always one to one But anyways,.  that's what multimodal means Thanks for saying that What are some of the guiding principle.  for you to make a decision when we use use what can you share one or two example?  So it's a contract in every professional coaching setup You have a contracting face That's.  what every professional coach does And in the contracting face, there is a conversation.  with the client can take 30 to 90 minutes It's pre set up That's something you train.  on how to run it protocols that are templates to follow And that's where you choose together.  with the client Like I said, be it an individual team or leadership unit What's the preferred.  mode for how long three sessions, 10 sessions, then you renew the contract.  Wonderful Thanks for sharing that I am going to give us one more minute and see if we need.  more time for that.  Bec, you mentioned if someone needs directions that is they are new to a role or task See.  it as a transfer of experience and knowledge So has that always been your guiding principle,.  Becky? No, I just put that as when I would use directive And then obviously non directive.  I use as well But I was just giving an example for directive I mean, I kind of would put.  a post it note in the middle of picking depending on the situation and what I'm facing Yeah.  So thanks Thanks for sharing that And one, you've talked about finding the limits that.  the person finding what limits the person from reaching their goals So you use the non directive.  style for that Wonderful Wonderful Thank you, everyone for indulging me in sharing. your perspective So please, as we go through all the talk, use this  Miro Board  It's.  in the chat for you to share So Simon, back to you And you can continue Before we go,.  Greg does have a question So as you get ready, go for it, Greg.  I was just going to make a I'm just making an observation If you look on LinkedIn and.  even the place that I was working at last, there's a more of a drive to be more directive,  to be more of a delivery coach, and not necessarily just coach, they want some of the delivery  stuff out of the coaches I'm seeing that more and more in LinkedIn I'm seeing it more.  and more on lots of things But so I think it's important that we're not just non directive.  yet There is a demand of being a little bit more directive right at this time.  Wonderful Thanks Thanks for sharing that perspective, Greg And yes, it is as we unpack.  We learn a little bit more about the nuances of the two styles So over to you, Simon.  Yeah, nice to meet you, everyone So I'm just wondering, would it be okay if more of us.  turn on your camera so that I can see your beautiful smile and faces? I'm from Sydney.  If we haven't met before, it's very early here, 615, seeing your faces might help me.  to stay awake Otherwise, I'm just staring at my own blank screen and it's getting a.  bit lonely and boring with my kids and my wife's sleeping So if you could turn on your camera,.  that would be beautiful That would be great It would just give me that extra energy to.  keep going a bit more Thank you so much So yeah, so as a maintenance introducer, I'm.  really sharing some of the learning I started my counseling training a few years ago and.  also as a coach I had similar to Manfin I keep on wondering, when should I be telling.  people, I know what your problem is, but do I shut up and stay quiet and just let you  work out until you get to your aha moment? Because that's what a coach should do And.  when I'd learned, and I've gone through my training and learning, I came across these  two models These are two most of the influential psychologists back in the 60s And a lot of.  what we do today, what we know about psychology came heavily impacted by these two persons,  Kyle Rogers and Albert Ellis Have anyone in the room heard about them? Because I just.  want to get an idea If you were shaking your hands and yeah, I think some reaction.  Yeah, good So I'm just going to go through very quickly what I learned from there So.  but before I do that, what I've also learned is that, wow, like before I did my training,  you know, sometimes some people, some of my mentor tells me coaching is very different  in counseling or psychology But it's not what I learned is that starting from the.  late 1800s when Ford started thinking, Oh, what is the psychology? What's the different  age, the eye, how you what you get from your dream and all of that from Kyle, a lot of  wonderful thing happened since then, especially in the 50 and 60s where it's almost like  everyone have a different theory on about how human psychology work If you really go.  into like everyone have their own theory and everyone have to study to prove that they're  right But not only just that, it keeps on going until recently in 2000 and Sydney, a.  professor started thinking, Hey, what's a culture?  And that is still more active today.  A lot of what we learn about coaching actually has root from the same psychological theory  that we know.  So I'm going to start diving into it.  So the person sent to therapy was proposed by Rogers in the 1960s.  It's based on his own clinical experience and a lot of study that he had.  One of the most fundamental difference about his theory is that back in those days, a  psychologist is coming from a medical history.  They're like a doctor.  So they're the expert.  To him, no.  The client is the expert to his or her problem.  So as a therapist, all you need to do is focus on providing the necessary condition to help  the person.  And then that's all you need.  I'm going to go into the condition that he proposed.  He proposed there's only three conditions.  That's all you need, just these three conditions.  The first one is the client being an incongruent client, having a relationship with a congruent  therapist.  I'm going to explain a little bit more about what congruent means.  Once you have that relationship, all the therapists need to do is exercise and demonstrating  what he called unconditional positive regard and also demonstrating that epiphytic understanding.  And then as long as the client can feel those two conditions, that's all you need.  There's no need to be able to know asking the right question or guiding the client to.  go to any direction.  Now the meaning of congruent and incongruent is that we all have an image of ourselves.  We all have an image about what we are like according to us being the ideal self or how  people see us.  Confident means that there's a large gap in between the ideal self versus what people  see us.  Congruent persons mean the gap is a lot more overlap.  So we're being more authentic, we can say.  So that's all he proposed.  Then the unconditional positive regards means being able to accept the person no matter  what he or she thinks, no matter how different it is, not being judging and demonstrating  that I'll accept you the way you are.  If you are a parent, you would know what I mean when you're dealing with a five years  or falling a tantrum.  That's basically what it means.  So I'm going to demonstrate also what Rogers is really saying is that just being able to  listen, don't need to think about what question you're going to ask the client to help him.  move or how she move.  A lot of us have been coaching on what I'm going to respond to.  There's so many stuff here.  But while you're listening, just listen.  Don't even think about how you're going to respond.  Just listen.  Listen for what he or she's saying.  Listen for the nonverbal cue.  Listen for the tone.  Listen for what he or she is not saying.  That's all it is.  There's a lot of silence if you watch Rogers therapy, in which I'm going to play a three  minutes video demonstrating one of the sessions that he has.  This is available on YouTube.  What happened back in that day is they did an experiment, a lady called Gloria, she  participated in this experiment where she had a session with Carl Rogers as well as  Albert Ellis.  And they both demonstrate how their own therapy could help this woman.  In this session with Rogers, Gloria discussed with him one of the issues he's just struggling.  Remember this is back in the 60s.  So it's a lot more conservative.  One of the issues he was facing with Jesus recently divorced and sometimes she would  bring a man back after a date to her home.  She's having issue with worry that her daughters see her bringing a man back into her home  and she's not sure what to tell her.  And this is what happens in this session.  So it's quick here.  It isn't only her problem or the relationship with her, it's in you as well.  I feel guilty so much.  What can I accept myself as doing?  Yes.  Yes.  And you realize that you set up sort of sub-diffusionist to make sure that you're not caught or something.  You realize that you are acting from the guilt, is it?  Yes.  I would like to feel comfortable with whatever I do.  If I choose not to tell Pammy the truth, to feel comfortable that she can't handle it,  I don't.  I want to be honest and yet I feel there are scenarios that I don't even accept.  If you can't accept it in yourself, how could you possibly be comfortable in telling me  to her?  Right.  And yet, as you say, you do have these desires and you do have your feelings that you don't  feel good about them.  I'm just going to sit there and let me stew in it.  I want more.  I want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling.  If I can get rid of my guilt feeling about lying or going to bed with a single man, any  of that just so I can feel more comfortable.  And I guess I'd like to say, no, I don't want to let you just stew in your feelings, but  on the other hand, I also feel that this is the kind of very private thing that I couldn't  possibly answer for you, but I'm sure as anything, we'll try to help you work toward your own  answer.  I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but I mean it.  No, I appreciate you saying that.  You sound like you mean it.  So, Pam, how do you really choose something on your own, isn't it?  Which makes me feel very immature.  I don't like this, I mean.  I wish I were grown up enough, mature enough to make my decisions and stick by them, but  I need somebody to help me on, somebody to push me.  So you can't ever coach yourself for that, I guess, until, why, if I was anybody or if  I was grown up, I'd be mature enough to decide things like this for myself.  Right.  And take more risks.  I wish I'd take more risks.  I wish that I could just go ahead and be this and say, however the children grow up, I've  done my best.  I didn't have to constantly have this conflict.  And I'd like you to say no matter what you ask me, kids, at least I told you the truth.  You may not have liked it, but it's been the truth.  That's somehow I can admire.  I disrespect people that lie.  I hate it.  So you see, what a double-baron I am, and I hate myself if I'm bad, but I also hate myself  if I lie.  So it's accepting.  I want to become more accepting.  I guess judging from your tone of voice, you sound as though you hate yourself more when  you're lying than you do in terms of things you disapprove of in behavior.  I do.  I do.  Because this has really bothered me.  This happened with Pamela about a month ago, and it keeps coming to my mind.  I don't know whether to go back and talk to her about it.  Oh wait, she may have even forgotten what she asked me.  But, uh, it's just.  I guess you haven't forgotten.  I haven't, no.  I haven't.  I'd like to at least be able to tell her that I remember lying, and I'm sorry your lie has  been driving me nuts because I did.  I don't know.  I feel like now that's solved, and I don't even solve the thing, but I feel relieved.  I do feel like you've been saying to me, you're not giving me advice, but I feel like you're  saying, you really want to know what's happening, you want to follow Gloria, and go ahead and  follow it.  That's what I feel, backing up from you.  Yeah, so I don't know what you think, but you can see there's a lot of silence and pause  in the way that Roger's response after Gloria has spoken.  And you can also see it's really hard to cut down his session in just a couple of minutes.  I really encourage you to go out and have a look in the session yourself.  But you can see from the beginning when Gloria asked, just help me to remove my guilt, and  then I'm going to worry that you're just going to keep on saying the same thing back to me.  And then at the end, there's a reflection moment where all she has done was, all she  has done was reflecting what she has said, including the voice of her response.  And that's it.  That's all she needed.  And like she said, you didn't do a thing, but I feel relieved.  What do people think?  Thanks, Leon, for stating yes, holding the space is really important.  Yeah, I pretty much, what's coming to my mind is I'm impressed that Gloria was patient enough.  I would have just gotten up and shaken Mr Roger saying, are you still alive?.  Are you still with me?  Show me some human emotion.  Yeah.  Oh, Eric.  Well, one of the challenges I think we have here is that in this case, Gloria is someone  with problems that are not related to you in an organization.  What we see is that the issues are affecting everyone.  So especially if he's not an external coach, that being external have good things and bad  things, you know, maybe you're less influential because people don't know you, trust you,  then, or maybe they trust you, then the internal coaches are embedded into the culture and  into the current problems and are part of the problem.  And this is one of the challenges that we generally see that in this case, this video  is a little bit more neutral of what we can expect in a company.  And that's my opinion.  Okay.  Okay.  Thank you.  Thank you for your time.  Does the next.  So before you move on, I think we did have.  If.  Yeah, please do share on your.  In the chat and we'll come back to the questions at the end as well.  So the next one I'm going to share is the Rational Immotive Behavioral Therapy proposed by Alice.  Now, again, this is very different.  The stains that he proposed.  The therapist or the coach or the person helping in this case is seen as a teacher teaching  the client the thinking process as he calls it.  What he believes is that people often have irrational beliefs as he calls it.  And because of those irrational beliefs causes us to have a negative emotional negative response.  So quite simply, all he thinks all you need to do is change your belief, dispute that  with a positive belief, then that will solve all your problems.  That's as simple as that.  So you've been very directive on how to think, teaching the client how to think.  And he come up with this ABCDE model and sometimes just called ABC model.  So as I said, an event, an activating event, it could be anything.  It could be a bushfire.  It could be that you were late to work.  Your kids is crying, or you could be that you lost your job.  The event itself is neutral.  It is your own personal belief.  If you have an irrational belief, then it will cause a negative consequence.  So all you need to do is dispute that irrational belief with a more positive one.  Then you will have a new effect will give you new feelings.  Simple, right?  So to give you a bit more example.  If someone, this is something in my past when I'm coaching leaders,  often, or sometimes I would hear leaders saying, oh, this is so stressful position, Simon.  I have to make all the decisions for the team because I am responsible.  I am accountable.  And also if I don't do that, my team will see me as a weak leader.  You know, a point out, well, does that mean you really think that whoever is being the leader  has to be capable of doing everything?  Otherwise, you won't be worthwhile.  You won't have any value as a leader.  So I help them.  I would point out, what do you think about those agile principles?  If you really understand the principle of motivating people,  if you really understand that you need to help them to become a self-organizing team,  if you really think about the sustainable pace, being able to work,  not putting yourself as a bottleneck, how would you think now?  How would you react to that?  Pointing to them, this is your process where you might have gone wrong.  Now what are you going to do?  And then another example is, oh, we have to have good quality things before we release into the client.  Well, hang on.  Is that you're thinking that because you're really embarrassed if things didn't turn out to be the way that you want,  when you get a negative feedback, then you'll be embarrassed.  But what about the principle of having working software, working product as the primary measure,  and delivering that frequently?.  If you truly believe and understand those, that seems to be contradicting.  So you're pointing out, again, the way that they're thinking that's causing them issue.  I'm going to play that same example in the three-minus video.  So this time Gloria is exploring with Albert about whether he can choose the perfect man that she really desire.  And you can notice how the way that Albert responds to her is very different.  I don't know if this follows in contact with what you're saying,  but the thing I do feel is that I get suspicious then.  Am I the type of woman that will only appeal to the ones that are.  to not my type of guy anyway?  Is there something wrong with me?  Am I never going to find the kind of man I enjoy?  I always seem to get the other one.  All right, now you're getting closer to what I'm talking about,  because you're really saying, if I am this type of woman that none of these good eligible males are going to appeal to,  then that would be awful.  I'd never get what I want, and that would really be something frightful.  Plus, I don't like thinking of myself that way.  I want to put myself on a higher standard.  I don't like to think that I may be just an average Jane Doe.  Let's just suppose for the second argument at the moment that that were so,  that you were an average Jane Doe.  Now, would that be so terrible?  Would it be inconvenient?  It would be unpleasant? You wouldn't want it?  But would you get an emotion like shyness, embarrassment,  shame out of just believing that maybe I'm going to end up like Jane Doe?  I don't know.  I don't think it could, because you still would have to be a good person.  as I think you just said and it would be very bad It would be terrible I would be a no-good Nick if I would just.  Well, I'd never get what I want If I were just a Jane Doe and if I'd have to accept it.  I'd never get what I want and I don't want to live the rest of my life with just icky men  Well, that's necessarily so that you'd never you really mean your chances would be reduced because we know some icky girls who get some splendid men  Yeah, you see so you're generalizing there You're saying it probably would be that I'd have a more difficult time.  But then you're jumping to therefore I'd never get it all  You see the catastrophizing there that you've jumped to yes, but it feels that way to me at the time  It seems like forever  That's right  But isn't that a vote of non-confidence in you an essential vote of non-confidence?  Yes, and the non-confidence is because you're saying one I don't want to miss out  Are you saying even if it were like if I went into a doctor's office to start a conversation with him because he  Was attractive to me or he appealed to me?  Right even both so far as I'm starting out a conversation with him a personal one  Why not if he's an eligible individual any kind of an eligible individual?  Well, I know you accept that but that seems awfully brazen  I suppose it is brazen what have you got to lose the worst you can do is reject you and you don't have to reject you if  You were thinking along the lines that we've been talking five minutes or so Oh, yeah.  Now can you try to do that? I think I think so  It's gonna give me a sport to go out and see you you're right  That's all I can do is be rejected right and that means you intact It just leaves you.  Unfortunately not for the moment getting what you want  Thanks Eric for pointing it out Yes.  It's it's very direct and if you watch the whole session you almost you can see how Gloria is very  More confounded and and the energy level that goes in there It's more That's more debate It's more questions.  That's more challenged being challenged as well  Yeah, so  I think because of time I'll move on so one of the reflection on summary that I've learned is  We've found what Carl Rogers proposed is the importance of being not doing  It's the listen and understand the person and having that attitude having that  Unconditional positive regard even you're dealing with a person that really think differently as an agile coach often  I have to deal with leader that they even disagree with those agile principle, but that's okay  He or she is still a very successful leader  I have to really help me to find ways to hold and accept the person as is  however from what  Albert Ellis it's being very directive  But one thing to keep in mind is he or he's proposing is directive on the process  Directive on the way that the client should think not directive on the content  Not telling he or she this is what you should do  But the way that you thinking seems something has gone wrong I can see that that has gone wrong there.  What can you do? Well, this is what I would tell you suggest you to do differently  Yeah, that's my sharing Thank you very much I think now mentioned back to you.  Thanks, Simon Thank you for giving us an insight on.  really to  diverse and  Interesting perspective So.  Now it's time for us to practice what we have just learned So.  in in a short time, we will break out  in and probably we have around  30 minutes  breakout room and you have  two  Few options So you'll be broken out and Eric if you can break people out in groups of three.  and in there what we would recommend you  Once you get in in the groups of three is identify who the coach is going to be who the client is going to be and  Who the observer is going to be?  Now here's where you have multiple options either you can just do one  or two big rounds of  conversations of coaching and  Observing or you can do three rounds of ten minutes each  Where you take turns becoming a coach a client or an observer  It then within those ten minutes eight minutes spent in coaching and two minutes for  just debriefing what you experience and just sharing the knowledge and  In real life if you were sitting in real life if you are the observer, I  Would highly recommend as the observer  unmute mute yourself and turn your camera off so that the coach and the client are immersed in a conversation and the coach and client  You have your cameras on and your mics on and talk about any scenario that you would want to do  And role play it We're not going to give you a specific scenario.  So please pick a scenario that you would love to guide through  and get some coaching on that so  Any final questions before we break you out into groups of three.  and  If anything that's coming up that you're not sure and  Take notes I think man for new and I will stay in the main room.  And if you guys any questions you got got stuck feel free to come back out.  We can give you some guidance and help if that would be yes Yes, we will do that Thanks, Simon.  so with that I will ask Eric to break us out in groups of three and  teams is a bit  Empormental so it will break you out instantly and sometimes it will bring you back instantly as well  So it will tell us how much time you have  And you are now moving in 10 seconds  Hello everyone welcome back I know it feels as if someone just yank your chain and brought you back to all of us.  I know I experienced that  How was that experience for every one of you and  What we would love to do next is I'm going to put in and this is where  We will have a broader conversation  As a group before we go into that are there any burning questions that are. Surfacing that we want to address before we go into just a group share of how our experience was  Manthan yes, it's male just I want to say that I well  I  I feel  My decision about  work with a  local company I  felt very good and  release of the  That pressure  I'm very good session with my coach  Wonderful thanks Thanks for that share is well. I  Have put in a  Miro Board So I'm going to request all of you to. Jump on to the  Miro Board and as we are going through that Let's talk about it a little bit more.  in terms of  What your experience what were thoughts were and I'm going to bring everyone to me  What were your thoughts and when would you choose with style given what you've just experienced?  I know it's very a short session We could have gone for another hour or so just having a conversation on our. How to do this work?  Tell me turn turn on your comments as we are writing talk to me  Tell me why what is surfacing now as you're writing stuff in there?  And if anyone needs help with the  Miro Board, please give me a shout I can be a scribe or we can work some things out  As we are writing and we are capturing that would anyone else love to share their experience with the group I  Love it I had Greg in my group as my coach.  It's great to be able to present a talk and then also get some free coaching  Nice  Nice, so did you did you push him push him from his style?  Which is a directive style for him to go to the non-directed one? I  Think he has exercised both in one session  Nice  So what what were the highlights that came out?  You had any yeah, he gave he listened first and then he also asked I really what I really appreciate he  That's one point he asked is it okay if I give you some advice  And he asked for my permission and say well sure and then he starts sharing some ideas and that and that's helpful  It helped me to reflect on not necessarily I'm gonna do exactly what you suggest.  But he gave me some direction to think differently, which is I think that's what was what was really helpful  Thanks, thanks for sharing that I'm going to ask probably the room I was there I decided to be the observer.  Well one of the additional observer so  Carice and Leanne were having a session so would love if you can share some thoughts of what your experiences were?  As the coach  It was interesting to my natural style is to be non-directive and to try and move into being directive all the time  Was a struggle for me  and I think also  Carice I  Could see that she'd like to be reflective so it was  you know, I kept popping back into that mode and  and then there are times where I  Think it was just really trying to hit home  You need to think about this particular aspect of it  So the directive style was useful then but I'd love to hear Carice's thoughts  Yeah, I think in this particular role play I think I had a lot to unload and  So it helped to ask powerful questions to kind of organize the thoughts a little bit before she.  Got a bit directive so that she could help me commit to a direction based on what I said  So it was still very appreciative  I think I did make it a little bit difficult for her to meet her challenge of being the directive person that she doesn't  Usually I'm going to but I did feel like she listened well and I  Felt very comfortable when she was using both stars I think the timing was appropriate.  Wonderful and I know we spoke about this a little bit before we got yanked  It feels like sometimes as a coach and a coachy is you go in with the mindset and it's like a dance  And you've got to sometimes lead sometimes you've got to be led  as a coach as a coachy and then lean into  Either style and this is where I love how make  Mac is sort of talking about  Being on being really neutral and make would love to hear your  Share your perspective  Okay, make if you're talking you're on mute, but we'll come back to you Eric you had a question or a comment.  Yeah, so two things are very important as you probably know neurodiversity is very important in enterprise utility  and there is  You know so many reasons that are explaining  In the book especially when you have a changes in the market a lot of pressure, etc  and as a  Hyperactive person I've been improving my whole life, but I consider myself a hyperactive person all the time  We really we do really have difficulty to listen and they have to be  Something you practice all the time and one of the techniques I found very useful.  Because you know you're in the middle of a coaching session and you you feel like you're in the middle of a coaching session  And you you feel like you need to talk and it's more powerful than you  And one of the simple state things I found and I mentioned it a couple of times is  About using a notebook and then every time you feel like I have to talk now  Just to force yourself to make some notes in that notebook  This is very simple but allows time to regulate your your your chemicals in your brain  A few seconds and a few seconds can make a difference of imagine I feel like talking now  I need to tell this guy Yeah, you have to do it or whatever.  You just take and make notes of you know what this person said  This is the first thing and the second thing I think is is challenging also is not to move from a  Criticism, you know sometimes people ask you to give you some advice and and then they move into some criticism  And and finally also something important is known nonviolent communication I think it's a great match for any of these techniques.  Yes, thanks Thanks Eric for that share and that's that's one of the biggest.  Lifesaver for for me all as well is  Just keeping notes because a lot of the times is when I have experiences  I wanted to  Share everything before I hear another perspective and if someone interrupts me I  Then stop sharing that's been some of my reactions to that So I.  really good tip for all of us to sort of, I know most of individuals that are in the  coaching circuit have their favorite notebooks that they carry around everywhere, be it digital,  be it analog, so wonderful One last share before we go back to the group.  All right, all yours Simon, coming back and I think we are.  I think that's it So Greg's got some comments Yes, go ahead Greg.  Can't come off mute Yep, you can hear you now Yes, you can hear you Greg Yes.  Okay, okay it's just taken a while to reflect One of the reasons I put break state and directive.  is that often when we're coaching people can be stuck in that one perspective and so it's  some we have to have some form of break state to help them see other perspectives and I don't  believe we can do that non-directively Thanks for sharing that perspective Greg.  That's really insightful Yes Eric.  One of the things you can use in those cases are using games because games is like an imaginary  time where you start a game and you end a game and then people feel more relaxed during  games and then when you are doing a game you don't mind experimenting different perspectives.  As long as the game has an initial start and an ending start and this is what in the initial  change we call it game time So during this period of time your brain behaves in different.  way It has a modulation of certain hormones in better ways So one or maybe one option,.  I don't know maybe one option for Greg's issue is well it's not Greg's issue but the issue.  that Greg was mentioning is to use games So where people come experiment another.  mind says as a game is a game but then you need to make sure you finish it.  Yeah so I think the learning for me from studying the person's end of therapy is that you can  actually just by reflect I mean the example that the video extract I cut out just by simply  reflecting what the person has said They do get to the moment where they could ah.  yes I know what my problem is now If you have heard of you know to go even more extreme.  if you have heard of clean language that is another therapy by coming from a person who  thinks that Carl Wardzio was still too too directive He's still sharing his own opinion.  too much so he come up with this set of questions that you discussed your issue as a symbolic.  term Don't even describe to me what the issue is Tell me what you would describe that with.  an object or with a story with a narrative that is totally irrelevant and you just ask  a question and the person will go oh yeah I know what my issue is now thank you so much.  So I think yeah that's the powerful part that by truly listening then yeah that would help  but yeah it's yes I think everyone have a different experience too.  Wonderful thanks thanks for sharing that as well Simon If you can please share the slides.  again the few slides at the end So really thank every one of you for coming together.  spending your Friday evening or Saturday morning with us in learning about this experience  different perspectives and we just wanted for you to continue this experience and there  are if you've not already got the ebook go ahead get the ebook there is a lot of content  in there a lot of models that you learn to experience to share and we also get to play  with some additional support in HANA AI as our expert in enterprise agility and our world  community that is going to be there Finally please come join us here's the WhatsApp group.  that we would love for you to come and be part of a group and just enjoy the rest of  your day and really appreciate every one of you making time coming with us sharing your  insights and really want to thank each and every one of you for leaning in sharing your  experience being vulnerable being open about what is there and a big shout out to each  and every one of you for making time for us so with that we call this event a close and  thank everyone for being here thank you very much for your presence and your contribution  today Thank you thank you Manthan and thank you everyone for joining in today wherever.  you are in the world.